Ezra Klein dips into UFOlogy - and the results are pretty sad
Ezra Klein dips into UFOlogy - and the results are pretty sad
Erza Klein1 in a New York Times podcast dips into the UFO/UAP2 field, apparently without much preparation3 on what a scam-filled field it is. He doesn’t give his listeners much perspective on how to evaluate the Republican clown show of UFO hearings. I wouldn’t say he embarrasses himself. But the journalist he’s interviewing doesn’t come across as especially credible.
He interviews Leslie Kean, the co-author of an article4 in The Debrief, which describes its mission as filling “a significant gap in rigorous reporting on frontier technology, future science, the world of defense, and knowledge on the periphery of human understanding.”5 Kean is also the author of UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go On the Record (2010) and Surviving Death: A Journalist Investigates Evidence for an Afterlife (2017). Robert Sheaffer describes the credibility of her UFO book as “pretty bad.” Of the Afterlife book, he writes, “Kean has gone full woo-woo on the subject of ghosts and spirit manifestations.“6 Sheaffer also notes that Kean “lives in a bubble of overwhelmingly pro-UFO information and apparently thinks that there is nothing of value outside it.”
UFOlogy is a field full of scamsters, grifters, and gullibility. But there is a also a long history of careful debunking work in the field. When Ezra asks Kean about how she vets sources, her answer is not encouraging.
It's a very, very tricky thing, especially as a reporter who wants to bring forward credible people. And, yes, some of them may have long histories with various CIA programs that studied things like remote viewing and they might seem very, you might use the word "fringy," but really these were programs run by the CIA, so.
People have a lot of ideas about the ideas that other people have and I can't control that. When I bring someone out [as a source], I have a reason to believe - specifically with relation to this - they know what they're talking about. But who's going to decide what's fringe and what isn't, really? I think that there are people who have beliefs like that, many more of them than you would ever imagine, and most of the people just don't talk about it. And you don't know about it.
And it's really a struggle, Ezra, because this subject is sort of tainted with all that kind of stuff. You come to the table with people having preconceived ideas about how strange it is and how fringy it is. So I do the best I can with the sources that I can bring forward and I understand people's concerns. [my emphasis]
Gee, who’s to decide “what’s fringe and what isn’t”? Maybe … reporters trying to do decent journalism on the topic?
Neither she nor Ezra Klein seem to be very aware of one key principle in looking at this whole field: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I’m sure that “this subject is sort of tainted with all that kind of stuff” isn’t something that will bother the Congressional Trumpista caucus.
But for those seeking reality-based information, it’s a bit too loosey-goosey for comfort. This interview sounds like something from a UFO convention. It’s also not encouraging that this is appearing on a New York Times podcast. But that’s also the paper where Judith Miller worked and pimped false propaganda about Iraqi “weapons of mass destruction.”
See also Stefan Becket’s report on David Grusch, whose allegations are the main topic of Ezra’s interview with Leslie Kean.7 Some of them may have a familiar ring.8
At the end of the interview, Kean recommends books by J. Allen Hynek9, Richard H. Hall10, and Diana Pasulka.11
Chris Impey gives a sober report on the clown-show hearings:
For now, the subcommittee will continue its work. A tangible outcome will probably be an anonymous reporting mechanism to overcome the stigma commercial and military pilots feel when they witness a UAP.12
Which will predictably produce a flood of flaky reports that will waste however many people-hours are devoted to evaluating them. And the UFO/UAP enthusiasts will interpret the fact that so many of the hotline tips could not be definitely explained as evidence that the Great Conspiracy To Cover Up UFOs is still going strong.
While the hearings brought attention to UAPs and could lead to more reporting from people who work in the military and aviation, the testimonies did not produce evidence to fundamentally change the understanding of UAPs.
An old story that goes back a long way.13
What the Heck Is Going on With These U.F.O. Stories? New York Times Podcasts YouTube channel 06/20/2023. (Accessed: 2023-31-07).
UFO=Unidentified Flying Object; UAP=Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena.
Skeptics Remind News Media: Keep UFO Reporting Grounded in Reality. Center for Inquiry 06/24/2021. <https://centerforinquiry.org/press_releases/keep-ufo-reporting-grounded-in-reality-advise-skeptics/> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).
Kean, Leslie & Blumenthal, Ralph (2023): Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Carft of Non-Human Origin. The Debrief 06/05/2023. <https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/> (Accessed: 2023-31-07). It’s worth noting that beaver dams and beehives are also structures “of non-human origin.”
About Us page of The Debrief. <https://thedebrief.org/about/> (Accessed: 2023-31-07).
Schaeffer, Robert (2021): The New Yorker’s Credulous Article on Pentagon UFOs. Skeptical Inquirer 45:5, 36-39. <https://skepticalinquirer.org/2021/08/the-new-yorkers-credulous-article-on-pentagon-ufos/> (Accessed: 2023-01-08). The article recounts several instances of Kean’s credulousness.
Becket, Stefan (2023): What are UAPs, and why do UFOs have a new name? CBS News 07/27/2023. <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-are-uaps-unexplained-aerial-phenomenon-ufos-new-name/> (Accessed: 2023-31-07).
Schaeffer, Robert (2023): More Credible Eyewitness Testimony about Crashed Saucers & Dead Aliens!!! Bad UFOs blog 07/06/2023. <https://badufos.blogspot.com/2023/07/more-credible-eyewitness-testimony.html> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).
Klass, Philip J. (1979): The Conversion of J. Allen Hynek. Skeptical Inquirer 3:3, 49-57. <https://skepticalinquirer.org/1979/04/the-conversion-of-j-allen-hynek/> (Accessed: 2023-31-07).
Richard H. Hall. Wikipedia 12/258/2022. <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_H._Hall&oldid=1129483380> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).
Diana Walsh Pasulka. Wikipedia 07/29/2023.<https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Diana_Walsh_Pasulka&oldid=1167724428> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).
Oncar, Samuel (2019): A Quest for the Holy Grail: On D. W. Pasulka’s “American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology”. Los Angeles Review of Books 07/27/2019. <https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/a-quest-for-the-holy-grail-on-diana-pasulkas-american-cosmic-ufos-religion-technology/> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).
Chris Impey, Christ (2023): Whistleblower calls for government transparency as Congress digs for the truth about UFOs. The Conversation 07/27/2023. <https://theconversation.com/whistleblower-calls-for-government-transparency-as-congress-digs-for-the-truth-about-ufos-210435> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).
Also at: Whistleblower testimonies did not change our basic understanding of UFOs. PBS Newshour 07/29/2023. <https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/analysis-whistleblower-testimonies-did-not-change-our-basic-understanding-of-ufos> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).
Bartholomew, Robert (1990): The Airship Hysteria of 1896-97. Skeptical Inquirer 14:2, 171-181. <https://skepticalinquirer.org/1990/01/the-airship-hysteria-of-1896-97/> (Accessed: 2023-01-08).